Her dog refused to let a customer leave the store, and the owner admitted she was right to.

0:00 Nicole Like if I say, let's go. And they go, we prefer not to. And I say, let's go again. Guess what? They're going. I could be like, let's jump in this volcano. And they'd be like. And then Liesel would be like, well, if you're going in, I'm going in. I mean, by the way, let's go. Stupid.

0:13 Eva Welcome to, you know, too much a bite sized trip down the rabbit hole with people who know way too much about one very specific thing. I'm Eva McCloskey.

0:22 Pamala And I'm Pamala Buzick Kim. Let's get to know too much.

0:27 Eva Okay. What? Before we get into it. Tell me about your pin. Because if it's to, it's too distracting.

0:33 Pamala I know it's a little hard to see in the camera, but it's a it's a Shiba Inu just sitting with a little chef's hat. Shirt next to an alpaca store.

0:45 Eva Spit. Oh, now I want a taco.

0:48 Pamala So. Definitely, so good. I love Shiba Inu, and I love when they're in multiple. So, like, are Shiba Inu meet up or you go to a corgi meet up? Yeah. Or you go to a golden retriever meet. I'm not into purebred dogs, but I do love seeing multiples of the same thing.

1:05 Eva Okay, let's do it. More dog talk with the girl.

1:10 Nicole Welcome, Nicole. Welcome. Hi.

1:14 Eva Welcome to.

1:15 Pamala Today's show. Thank you. We're so excited to have you here.

1:19 Nicole So excited to be here.

1:21 Pamala Yeah. Can you tell us what you know? Too much about?

1:25 Nicole I think I know too much about dogs and perhaps adventuring and perhaps adventuring with dogs, but I think we're going to finally get it right.

1:33 Eva Ooh. Okay. I love where to start. How did you first get into it with these adventuresome dogs?

1:42 Nicole Oh my goodness. I would say that I have always been a dog person. I've always been a animal person. I was the kid who, refused to play house. I wanted to play veterinary clinics. I think that pretty much says everything you need to know about five year old me. Yes. I decided very early that I would not only become a veterinarian, but that I would go to vet school at Cornell University.

2:05 Nicole So did not become a veterinarian, but ended up many, many years later, becoming a certified dog trainer. And then, you know, a dog mom and a cat mom and all the all the fur kid moms. And then I just started with my two girls that I currently have. My two large breed girls. So I have over 200 pounds of dog living in my house, and I love it.

2:29 Nicole Yes. Wide eyes. Yes. One is 95. My small one is 95 pounds and my big one is 120.

2:36 Pamala Looking at dogs, are these. Oh my.

2:37 Nicole Goodness. So my small one is a giant schnauzer and standard poodle. She is the reason that I got her.

2:44 Eva Big.

2:46 Nicole Standard poodles. Get that big. Yes. And giant was also get that big. It's, it's, not well known, I guess. Fact about giant schnauzers in, in the US, because they are a German breed and we know mini schnauzers and we know, standard schnauzers, but not giant schnauzers. But they are actually, military dogs in Europe.

3:11 Nicole They are great protectors. They are not just smart, but also clever. Wait, what's the bigger dog? Oh, yes. We can't forget about the bigger one. She is a Great Pyrenees. And Komondor.

3:23 Eva I have 100 questions, but the one I'm really stuck on at this moment is how there's so much power at the end of their leash. If they're that big and you are super strong, I'm sure. But like a in a typically sized human. So how do you.

3:46 Nicole Do you. Larger than a typically size two. I I'm six feet, thank goodness. So I haven't actually been dragged by anyone. Yeah. Also, I did mention I'm a trainer, so, you know, there is a certain level of training that has come in with both of them.

4:01 Eva What's one of the most surprising things that you've you've learned on your adventures with these? With Ruthie and Liesel.

4:10 Nicole So one surprising thing I mentioned, like, it was nonchalant, but it was surprising to me when it first happened. So, I knew that Ruthie, who's the Great Pyrenees mix, was, you know, was in her, make up to work with another dog or another group of dogs. But I didn't realize was that that wasn't specific to another livestock guardian dog.

4:37 Nicole So the first time that we were hiking and Liesel and Ruthie worked together. No training, no little manual, no nothing. They just figured it out. I was I was grateful because they are working together because we crossed a bear on the trail.

4:56 Eva And we'll be right back after this. Eccentric Bagel chips started after realizing Shelter Island had no good bagels. We're now in over 22 states farmers markets, gourmet shops, cheese stores, gift shops, shop eccentricbagel.com. And now back to the show.

5:13 Nicole So I was grateful. But I also was thinking, after the initial shock of, oh, that's a bear. I thought, wow, they just figured out how to work together.

5:22 Eva Wow.

5:23 Nicole I didn't know what was happening. Immediately, because they smelled, the bear before. I'm sure at all, because I don't have those senses. Because, I heard something rustling. Assumed it was a deer. Because that's what we're normally, up against. Ruthie chase a deer. Liesel takes the deer out of the area. She'll say, get out of here.

5:44 Nicole We don't want you near.

5:45 Eva This is our space.

5:46 Nicole I'm back. Yes. Ruthie alerted. She was out front, alert, barked, took a stance. So a stance from a Great Pyrenees is they square themselves and their tail is wagging, but not in a wagging that you want to see and then go like try to kiss their face. Don't do that. Liesel was by with.

6:04 Eva Purpose.

6:05 Nicole A wagging with purpose. Exactly. Okay. Liesel was by me. She took a stance alert bark, which is a higher bark for her. At that point I did see a shadow and I thought not necessarily deer.

6:19 Eva Shades too tall.

6:21 Nicole Don't pet, not friend. Bear wide to our paths. Far enough ahead that I wasn't worried that it was going to turn. And, you know, we, we're going to be a threat to it. I, I thought immediately, are the girls going to chase this? We just called them off. Yeah. And I was like, this could go horribly wrong.

6:41 Nicole Or this could go, okay, first of all, my dogs know what to do, so I stopped. Ruthie took a couple more steps toward the bear. Livestock Guardian's first instinct is to scare away. So they are not here to fight. They your to say we are here. We will fight if we need to. But please don't make it up.

7:05 Nicole Basically. Yeah. So she'll deepest growl and bark. She was using all of her opera singer pipes to let it be known. She is looking at big as possible and Liesel is behind her saying yeah, that's right, that.

7:21 Eva I will get you.

7:23 Nicole But they work together in the park normally in this. This is the stance that I saw because Ruthie is a fence runner like she will. If there's a fence involved, she'll get up at the fence. She's the front line. That's her defensive stance. Liesel is my body girl, right? So she's on me. Yeah. So she took the in between position.

7:44 Nicole She positioned herself right in front of me, facing the direction of the bear and letting it be known that there is at least two of us and we will fight you. Once the bear didn't didn't stop. Didn't you know? Just off up the mountain it went? They stayed right by me for a time, but, you know, took it down a notch.

8:04 Nicole They weren't yelling anymore. Yeah. And then they went about their business after the threat had passed. So I didn't know that they would work together. I didn't know exactly what would happen at all. And, I'm so proud that day, and I did. Didn't lose their.

8:18 Pamala Dog. Yeah. I'm winning. Yeah, yeah. I'm like, yeah, dog instincts and all of those things are so incredible. I mean, having been a trainer, have you noticed it's like in other realms too, where they just like, you're the girls now, the girls know X, Y, and Z. Are there other examples of this?

8:38 Nicole I probably shouldn't say this in such a public forum, but people anyway, because I use Liesel to as like, temperature check for people like all the time. Yeah. We've had people we've been out and about and people, especially women. I, I'm not women like need to need to have the dog love them in my experience. And I'm just like kallax a little bit like it, you know, it's all you she needs to take you.

9:04 Nicole It's fine if she's just, you know, hanging around in your area, you're fine. If she looks at you and says no and walks away, I have to wrap. I have questions, right? It doesn't. My goodness, I have questions. If she barks and will not let you come near her, her sister or me.

9:28 Eva No immediate dismissal. Have you.

9:31 Nicole Any dismissal? We've been in the house. You.

9:34 Pamala Have you been able to prove this to be true?

9:37 Nicole Yes, yes.

9:39 Eva Tell us how you.

9:40 Nicole Have been in a store. Yeah. And she decided that there was another customer, and I mean, a dog friendly, like we weren't just, you know, we weren't making sure.

9:50 Eva You were invited in. We were.

9:51 Nicole Invited in. Yes.

9:52 Eva And so charming.

9:54 Nicole I'm sure you were in a store. Another customer came in immediate. She was on this person. Oh, she.

10:03 Eva On them physically or just. Oh, okay.

10:06 Nicole Like she honed in. Yeah, she she, like, opened the door and she she honed in and alert barks. And I was like, what in the world? What is she.

10:16 Eva In the store? There's no bears in here.

10:19 Nicole She. Exactly right. Well, not that I knew exactly right. She honed in and she would not let it go. Yeah, she would not let this person out of her sight. Now she knows the store owner, so she would be protective of that person as well. Would not let this person out of her sight. Bark bark bark would not let it go.

10:39 Nicole She did not calm down until the customer left, got in the car and left okay. And that's when she took it down a notch. I went back okay I apologized again and basically the response was, oh no, there are reasons that your dog was correct. I'll just leave it at that. What? I'll leave it at that. Because, you know, because this is, this is a real scenario.

11:13 Eva Innocent until proven guilty.

11:15 Nicole Well, yes. And not proven guilty by lethal. But but the the store owner confirmed that this person, like, actually didn't want her us to leave. Because this person was on the has on the list, and for good reason. Oh, wow. Yeah. So I'm like, Liesel.

11:37 Eva Can be something good. Security is good. Security there.

11:43 Nicole And just plain like, whatever the dog's form of judgment is. Right? I don't I don't I'm not saying the person was dangerous or anything like that, but she just knew that this was not somebody that we needed to interact with or that anybody she cared about should be interacting with.

11:59 Eva Amazing.

12:00 Pamala People or anything that, like, translates in your world from dog to human, that you're like, this works. This completely works.

12:10 Nicole So there's there's a I think there's a couple answers because there's a, there were a couple parts. That question. Right. So, one thing that works with humans and dogs is treats.

12:22 Eva Yes. That's right.

12:24 Nicole But, listening to other parents who have been through it with their kids, I did discover that potty learning for children and for puppies pretty much the same. Okay, so yeah, routine. Get them there before they have to go. Right? But at the moment where they are likely to have to go and then put a treat in their mouth basically when they do the thing.

12:50 Nicole So I was like, oh, I could totally potty train human. Everybody wins with so many puppies, right? One thing I have learned from Liesel in particular that has been, I've been trying to take on in my own personality.

13:09 Nicole And sometimes I look at her, I'm like, why are you that way? And then I realize I, I helped her to become that way because a puppy is a fearless dog. And generally speaking, if you have a confident dog, adult dog, aggression or those types of things that we label as humans, as aggression often come from fear.

13:35 Nicole So if you dog, they're not acting out and acting out of fear. So Liesel is considered to be quite stable, and she has grown up to be competent, which has fed her stability. Her approach to the world is If I'm going there, everything that stands in the way between here and there should move. So, she will just go down her path and if there's something in her way, she will stop and look at it and give it the chance to move based on excuse itself.

14:12 Nicole We did this to, I don't know, a couple months ago now. There was a tree branch that was laying across her normal path. Yeah, not in the woods. I mean, like in our near our house. And she looked at the branch and she gave her an opportunity to move. Then she walked up to the branch she put her forehead against against it and she headbutted it.

14:33 Nicole It's no big move, you would think at this point. Says, I'll have to walk around. Yeah. No, no, she walked directly over that thing. She. Yes, she almost stumbled, but she did not look down. She didn't. She just walked directly over. And it wasn't a small branch. And then when she got over, she was like, I could just hear her thinking like, that's right.

14:57 Nicole And then she runs. And I was like, Nicole, take a note of this, okay?

15:04 Eva Truly. Yeah.

15:06 Nicole Like humans who are on a mission need more Liesel in their just day to day because she was not deterred. Yeah. And she will trip over something and look at it like it was at fault.

15:18 Pamala Liesel, lead life with confidence. Useful.

15:22 Eva Right? Yeah. More adventures or adventure for it.

15:26 Nicole So part of it is what is adventure mean to you. Doesn't happen. Thing. Yeah. And before you go out and adventure check your relationship with your dog or dogs. Think the reason why we adventure so well together is because we get along in the house. Right. I know that they are going to listen. I know what their body language means.

15:50 Nicole So I know if they're not feeling comfortable because when we're out there, they're not going to tell me those things, okay. As readily like if I say, let's go and they go, we prefer not to. And I say, let's go again, guess what? They're going, right. Yeah. I'm going, they're going.

16:07 Eva Yeah.

16:08 Nicole You know, I could be like, let's jump in this volcano. And they'd be like, And then Liesel would be like, well, if you're going in, I'm going in. I mean, by the way, let's go. Stupid.

16:17 Eva But yeah.

16:21 Nicole I love it so, so know each other before you get out in the adventure. So you know what the messages that they're sending you and then the way that you continue to build trust is listening to the message. Yeah. You know, if Liesel doesn't want to go in the water because the current is maybe just a little bit too much, then we're not going in the water.

16:41 Nicole If Ruthie doesn't want to go up that hill, you know, we have not gone places and found out that that particular area had a lot of rattlesnake activity. Oh, and I was like you know what girls good for you because I would have never guessed it. But something about whatever the snakes were giving off. The girls were like, you need to go over there.

17:04 Nicole I was like, kill!

17:06 Pamala Yes, nay, kill.

17:08 Nicole Yeah. We don't do a snake here. Slithering. Yes, you have to that trust. And you have to be willing to, listen to your dog, not just expect that they listen to you. Yeah, because what you give them, they will give you right back.

17:23 Pamala Yeah. It's beautiful. It seems so simple. Yeah. This has been a really wonderful conversation. That's it for today's episode of, You know Too Much. Thank you so much, Nicole. Now we know way too much as well. So if you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe. Leave us a glowing, shining five star review and share it with someone who would love it.

17:44 Pamala Explore more episodes, a behind the scenes content at You Know too Much.

17:48 Eva Follow us wherever you get our podcasts to keep the obsession going. Thank you so much, Nicole.

17:54 Nicole Thank you for having me. Such a pleasure. Yeah. Thank you, guys.

18:00 Pamala We so appreciate you coming and sharing this with us.

18:03 Eva Yeah, this is great. Look. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks. See you next week, everyone. I.