The croissant is my Moby Dick.

0:00 Erica This is my sort of like Moby Dick is the croissant. It's like I cannot. There's people that keep saying they figure it out. I haven't tried one yet. That tastes like a real croissant. Like the flakiness. I feel like I need to go to Paris now.

0:19 Pamala The internet wants you to know a little about everything.

0:22 Eva Headline here, a trending topic there.

0:24 Pamala Just enough to have an opinion.

0:26 Eva But never enough to understand.

0:28 Pamala This is, you know, too much.

0:30 Eva A show about the opposite.

0:32 Pamala The people who go all the way down the rabbit hole.

0:34 Eva The collector.

0:36 Pamala The overthinker, the obsessive. This is, you know, too much Erica Fair.

0:42 Erica And I know too much about making gluten free baked goods that actually taste amazing.

0:46 Eva Erica, I am so excited to talk to you today because even when my friends say they're gluten free, I never remember and I never understand it. I do think that there's been this huge explosion in gluten free products compared to when we were kids.

1:03 Erica And my gosh, you totally.

1:05 Eva But I like I need to know I need to know what is it here?

1:10 Pamala How did we get.

1:11 Erica How did I get here? Oh my God, how did I get here? Is a good one. So a little backstory. I worked in fashion, you know, graduated college, was thought I was going to be, you know, a famous fashion designer. And that obviously didn't work out. But I worked in a lot of different spaces. And then for like ten, 11 years, then I was like, this is crushing my soul, making tiny mini skirts that are thousands of dollars for no, for no reason.

1:36 Erica I was like, this is not working for me. And so in between that time, I lived in New Zealand and I worked at a gluten free bakery. I interned, which is really funny to people in New Zealand because they were like, we want to work for free at our bakery. And I was like, yeah, I don't really know anything about this.

1:54 Pamala At the bakery. That's the.

1:55 Erica Name. Yeah.

1:57 Eva Capitalism.

1:59 Erica Yeah. I was like, have you heard about this? This is what we do. We, we, we try to learn everything for free because no one wants to pay us. But they were like, okay, weirdo. So like one day a week, I would, like, ride my bike to this little bakery and learn a bunch of stuff. And I was like, oh, oh, this is what I need to do.

2:15 Erica This is actually what I really, really love. So like, come back to New York, work in fashion. But in the middle of it all, I'm like, this is, you know, it's paying the bills, it's doing what it's doing. But I was like, I really need to start this. So I did it.

2:29 Eva Drove you to want to do this, though, if you're like.

2:32 Erica I was gluten free and so like that. Sorry, I forgot that part, but yeah, I'm gluten free and everything was always kind of gross. And so that I was like, oh, I could do this. I've always sort of baked and sort of made things. And I was like, but when I started doing it, like for fun, like I was like, oh, I actually really, really like this.

2:50 Erica This is what's actually making me more excited.

2:53 Pamala Gary, that you interned at, was that a gluten free bakery or that was just like a standard being?

2:57 Erica Oh, it was a gluten free bakery. And like, that was in like 2009, which was crazy because like other countries seem to have a little more of a leg up on like, things of this nature. Everywhere I went, every coffee shop had something gluten free, had some sort of option. But like here in America, it was like, yeah, here's the sad little thing that we made that you aren't going to enjoy it as well.

3:21 Erica So I was like, oh, I can totally do this. So coming back to New York, working fashion and do my thing, realize I do like it, start like baking at nighttime and trying to like, figure out how this all works. And I just went to random coffee shops around New York City and was like, hey, do you want to buy a gluten free muffin head?

3:42 Erica Like and think coffee? Yeah. Think coffee was the first like big coffee shop that actually were like, yeah, sure. Weird girl. Blueberry muffins. Yeah.

3:52 Pamala Peter and fashion.

3:53 Erica Week, they were like, you look cool. I don't know.

3:57 Pamala More about the baking of it and the closeness of it.

4:03 Erica And the gross. Yeah.

4:06 Pamala Why? Why?

4:07 Erica But back in the day. Yeah. So like everyone. Because I don't think people understood what it was and they were like, oh, rice is gluten free. We're only going to use rice flour. And it's so dry and grainy and sad. And then I think as you know, the world became more like wellness focused and everyone got like hyper aware of things and food.

4:29 Erica They were just like, hey, beans can make flour. Hey, like this other stuff? Tapioca starch. Oh, there's so many gluten free flours that you can now just like, mix and match and make things. And that's sort of what I do. It's not very scientific. There's a lot of people that are like, you know, have like science degrees. Yeah, I don't, I do, I do the more creative aspect of things.

4:52 Eva Look like a scientist today.

4:54 Erica Well, thank you, thank you. It's though it's the way it's my lab coat.

4:57 Pamala Ask it science sciency.

5:00 Erica It is like I told my husband I'm.

5:02 Pamala Okay with the flowers though.

5:04 Erica Like, yeah. So like, yeah, like garbanzo beans, flour or chickpea flour is like a huge one we use. But like in other cultures. Yeah. It's, it's they're like duh. But for, you know, us dumb, dumb Americans were like, oh yeah, we had to like, figure it out. So like, I use garbanzo beans or sorghum, which is like some sort of grain.

5:23 Erica There's a tapioca starch, there's arrowroot starch, potato starch, brown rice flour, regular rice. There's so many rice flours to yeah, that are made from like sushi rice. So it's a little more like stickier. Well and they there's just like different almond meal which is a whole new thing like grinding up almonds, mega flour. It's super awesome. Like even the paleo people like with their coconut flour.

5:50 Erica That's sort of a thing that people are into. And so just learning about all of the specific aspects of it, you just play around and they're like, oh, if I put this with this in this, it makes this sort of texture. And I just know for us at the bakery, it's very like specific of like, I know this combination of flours is going to make this type of product.

6:13 Erica So like for our cookies.

6:16 Eva Why do you know that?

6:17 Erica I don't know, it's a lot of experimenting, which is super fun and also like a million cookbooks. I've read the internet is fascinating, especially like now there's so much information. But yeah, like, it's just playing around and being like, yeah, this will work. Oh, this is a terrible idea. This was disgusting.

6:35 Pamala What's the worst gluten free flour you've ever worked with?

6:40 Erica I don't like coconut flour. Okay. I think it's like super. It sucks up every ounce of moisture you put into something. It just sucks it all up. So you have to, like, go crazy with the ratios. And I don't really think it does anything flavorful. Like it just tastes like coconut. After a while I'm like, that's cool if that's what you're going for.

7:02 Erica But that's more like a paleo vibe where they're just like, no grains and stuff like that.

7:08 Eva Is gluten free thing supposed to taste like? The regular thing is that it's like.

7:13 Erica That's my.

7:13 Eva Goal, the expectation or that's your goal, okay?

7:15 Erica That's my goal. A lot of people, I think, just are like, oh, I'm going to make a gluten free cookie just to make a gluten free cookie. But I find like some of the textures are a little bit of it, they add too much sugar to compensate for like how weirdly the texture is. But for me, my goal every time I try and make something, I try to make it so that it's the texture that I remember from when I used to eat that thing.

7:38 Erica Sometimes I gluten myself just to be like, do I remember what an actual cinnamon roll tastes like? And then you're like, and then that's really bad because then I don't feel so good. But that cinnamon roll is damn good. And like, the texture to me is really important to like. Yeah, like, you want a cake to taste like cake and not just be some dry, sad thing.

7:57 Erica And like a cinnamon roll has that very specific inner goodness, you know? Yeah, yeah. Where it's like that weird glue, but it's sweet deliciousness, you know? Can you not a.

8:08 Pamala Gluten free cinnamon roll that tastes. Yeah.

8:12 Erica I did it.

8:13 Pamala And we'll be right back after this, we spotted big ad agencies staffing their accounts with untrained children. That's why a tiny ad agency puts the founders on every assignment. So you get brand stories, get tiny. Today at tiny ad agency.com.

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8:45 Eva And now, back to the.

8:46 Erica Show I did it. I'm trying to figure out how to get them to people. Yeah, it's also a fun. It's also a fun thing to worry about when you're like, oh yeah, like, I have this bakery here and I'm delivering to all over the city and the like and beyond, and you're like, how do I get it to them?

9:01 Erica So that by the time it gets to you, it's not going to be sad and weird looking. And, you know, because like when you pull up cinnamon roll right out of the oven, it looks amazing, right? But if I bake it and ship it to you overnight, it might be a little bit weird in the morning. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

9:19 Erica So yeah, that's true.

9:21 Eva Walmart drop it for you is there. So on the opposite side is there any item that you're like I'm just never going to touch it because it's just never going to be that gluten style like I. Yeah like.

9:33 Pamala Why bother.

9:34 Erica Yeah. This is my sort of like Moby Dick is the croissant. It's like I cannot there's people that keep saying they figured it out. I haven't tried one yet. That tastes like a real croissant.

9:47 Pamala Like the.

9:48 Erica Flakiness.

9:49 Pamala I feel like I.

9:50 Erica Feel like I need to go to Paris now. I feel like I'm sorry. I feel like.

9:53 Pamala You know too much of it.

9:55 Erica I don't know about that. I'm going to have to put that in the budget. But yeah, no, that's the one where I've tried many, many times and it just I can't figure it out. There's something with the butter and they need gluten like it needs that gluten to sort of hold it all together.

10:08 Pamala That, that chemistry. Right.

10:11 Erica That whole science part. Yeah. Like with gluten. I try to explain to people like when you're like stretching, like pizza dough that stretchiness is what that's gluten. And so if I were to make pizza dough, it does not do that. It just rips, you know. So like none of the yeah, it doesn't matter. None of the flowers, you can get some sort of things.

10:29 Erica And there's weird like things like psyllium husk, which is like a fiber that people use to like for things xanthan gum, you can add to things. Then you get like a lot of people that are like, I'm allergic to that. That makes my tummy hurt. There's so many people where you're like, they're like, oh, I mean, it should be gluten free, vegan, sugar free, like alien like.

10:49 Erica And you're like, Good God. I was like, I can't, I can't do it. Oh, I'm sorry. That's like, I can do maybe 2 or 3. So I tried.

10:57 Eva Like cardboard.

10:58 Erica And exactly. I'm like, just maybe even Apple or some water. And that's all I got for you.

11:04 Eva Yeah. The same thing.

11:06 Erica Yeah. I'm like, it's all right. You can do, I can do what I can.

11:09 Eva The other like, what's the other like essential thing in like gluten free baking. Like, other than, like okay, here's all these flowers. Obviously you're gluten, but like, what is the other sort of staple. What are the other elements to this.

11:23 Erica Yeah, I think it's very similar to a regular baking. Like you use sugar, you use vanilla, you use butter. For us when we do vegan stuff, there's a lot of coconut oil. There's a lot of different like substitutes that you can use. People are getting very creative with vegan butter, not too like so you get lots of stuff from them making it out of cashews.

11:43 Erica There's a lot of vegan cashew situations going on. Yeah. And I think that.

11:49 Pamala Actually these are very versatile, right?

11:51 Erica Oh yeah. And they're like creamy. So like you get that sort of also another texture thing where it doesn't melt properly. There's like people are doing a lot of crazy stuff with food right now. I mean there's a lot of fake meat. So why not fake butter, you know. Right. And there's a lot of like, actual scientists where I'm just, like, messing around in my kitchen being like, oh, I know these three things work.

12:14 Erica I look at recipes all the time and I'm like, okay, how can I figure out what the ratios are for me, what's going to work in that capacity? But sometimes you get stumped and you make things a lot and you're like, oh no, this is not going well. You just have to like, restart yourself, kind of be like, okay, let's just go back to the beginning.

12:35 Erica What does this recipe really look like? How can I like sometimes I get too excited and change three things at once, and then I'm like, oh no, you're only supposed to change one thing at a time.

12:45 Pamala But too far away from the the genesis of the Crescent exactly.

12:50 Eva Exactly. Or what you did right.

12:52 Erica If you did exactly, exactly as like. So my you know, my science isn't very good in that aspect. So I have to be like, okay, dude, just change one thing and then go from there. Yeah, sometimes you get really excited and you're like, because you also want to eat it too. So you go like, what is this thing going to change?

13:10 Pamala Like, right. I'm just thinking about all the terrible, not even gluten free, but just like disappointing croissants that I've had in my.

13:18 Erica Oh, it's there's so many. I think you're like, this is just bread in the croissant shape. This is not like a croissant.

13:26 Pamala What? Stretch. You're chasing the stretch that's.

13:28 Erica Chasing the stretch. There's always a.

13:30 Pamala Stretch. I mean, yeah, yeah, the texture, the taste.

13:33 Erica Yeah. It's sort of I don't know, it's at the challenge is also fun as well to just take something that people are requesting and being like, how do I figure out how to make it? So I really like that part of it. That was my whole life before too, and fashion was like taking what people made and making it like to the end.

13:53 Erica And problem solving and figuring it all out. So that's just sort of carried on through this, where it's like taking that problem and being like dissecting it and figuring out and then being like, Tada! I made the thing.

14:04 Eva Yeah, I'm just curious what was and is there something that when you did have your gluten free bakery, because I know you sold it, did what was like the highest requested item? What was. Yeah, sold out the most thing. That's a very good point. You wanted, but you hated making, but you had to sell. Loved it. Like I need to know.

14:22 Eva I need to know that.

14:23 Erica Yeah. Let's see. The thing. The thing people love the most, it seems to be are right now are zucchini bread, which is also vegan. Oh, it's like crazy flying off the shelves. And they're just these little mini loaves that are like, you know, a couple inches, super delicious, but like, they're vegan and gluten free. Nobody knows the difference.

14:45 Erica And then I would say the next ones are banana bread, which I took a recipe from my mom's cookbook from Like Her. Like great grandmother. And it was like, you know, full of lard and like, weird ingredients from back in the day. And I was like, okay, this is going to be fun. And I.

15:01 Pamala Don't have to be.

15:02 Erica A very strict girl. Someone told me I should, like, get it like framed, like blow it up and frame it. And I was like, that's a good idea. Yeah. Just taking those and, like, making them into ours. So those two are the biggest things. The thing I hate making the most, I don't really like making bread or like bagels or things like that.

15:20 Erica It's not my thing. I really love sweet stuff. So like that is where I really like go towards. That's why I think the croissant is like the thing that I'll maybe I'll get to everything, other stuff, just that every now and then I looked at it amazing. I was like, if I ever have one that tastes good, I will like be like, yes, I will buy a million of them.

15:44 Erica But they're you can't. It's impossible to me. Is there anything else I don't like making? What? Really? I really like making cakes for people.

15:53 Eva Is there any other.

15:56 Pamala Are gluten fun fact full gluten?

15:58 Erica Yeah. I mean, it's funny because. Yeah, when you guys were talking to me about this, I was like, I don't I'm not like an expert expert because it just mess around in the kitchen all the time. And that's sort of like the creative part of me where I'm just like a little this little like, I kind of know what the majority of things do, but, like, it's kind of funny when I'm, like, looking at the world and like, you know, scrolling through Instagram and being like, oh, these people like, know stuff like, oh, it's like real experts.

16:27 Erica I think my husband bought me a cookbook and I was like reading it. And I was like, oh, this is too much science. I was like, I'm not. I'm not actually a scientist. Like, I'm just gonna add more water and then figure it out from there.

16:40 Eva So then an absolute delight.

16:43 Erica Oh thank.

16:44 Eva You. And so I'm just gonna say, well, I mean, that's all we have for today's episode of You Know Too Much. A huge thank you to Erica. Thank, you know, about gluten free baking and all of the non-science creativity parts of it.

16:59 Erica Yes.

17:00 Eva Honestly, now I feel like I know too much.

17:02 Pamala I love it.

17:03 Erica Yeah. Thank you guys.

17:04 Pamala Enjoyed this conversation. Please subscribe. Leave us a review. Share it with someone who'd love it. Explore more episodes and behind the scenes content at You Know Too Much Media.

17:16 Eva Follow us on Instagram and YouTube to keep the obsession going. Thanks so much, Erica.

17:22 Erica Thank you, thank you, thank you.

17:24 Pamala So great to hear all of your tales.

17:26 Erica Awesome. Thanks, guys. Next bye.